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Tuesday, August 09, 2005

Let me try a story in zen style.

There was a very famous self realized guru who was visited by so many disciples from all over the country. Most of them came to him seeking material benefits and however, few of them were aspirants of Self-Knowledge. This sage was famous for removing the doubts of those aspirants but he always insisted on answering them in private and there were never been public speeches. However, He allowed his dearest student to observe the conversations.

Once a merchant asked a question in karma yoga, “Bhagawan, if everything that is happening to me is based upon my previous karma, what is the use of trying for anything? “. The Guru said, “Your Past Karma is like a nail on the wall. You can only see its head which is your current state and you cannot know what exact length it went inside the wall. Let us assume that you want to remove the nail through your effort and if you find it difficult, that means the nail is hit deep inside the wall and you need to put more effort. Similarly, if your fate has put you in a situation, there is always a free will that can change it. In the event of failure, please know it is because of lack of effort. The theory of karma always provides lot of hope about the future in contrary to what you say”. The merchant felt this answer satisfying and departed.

Next came a sadhu, who has performed much of austerities, asked the sage in private “Bhagawan, is everything fixed by fate or karma?” The sage replied “Yes”. The sadhu continued, “I can understand that bigger events in ones life, like marriage, job, and place of living could have been controlled by fate. Do you say, even if trivial things like my raising hands or putting down when I talk are also pre determined?” The sage replied “Yes, they are, you do nothing new, everything is already done”. The sadhu got his doubts cleared and left the place.

Then the Sage looked at his student and the student said "I know Lord Krishna danced with each of the gopikas seperately by taking several forms and he was different krishna for different gopikas". Guru Replied, "Well Said".

13 Comments:

  • i could concur with the first one probably, aptly said, but everything (raising a finger etc) is already been decided, its a little too true to believe!

    By Blogger Prabhu, at 12:02 PM  

  • Hmm...reminds me of something I read somewhere long back (sorry for the vague reference :))

    Everything in life is pre-determined, decided by a power, by something that is greater than us and perhaps even within us...unconsciously we have already taken all the decisions that need to be taken...

    But I guess, our learning and experiences influence this unconscious power and thus our future decisions?

    By Blogger RS, at 12:37 PM  

  • I have edited the post a bit. But I wanna leave things abstract.

    By Blogger P B, at 12:55 PM  

  • i'm reminded of a story God created cow and gave the knowledge to human that cow wud give both dung and milk. Then he left it to the will of human to decide upon which one s/he chooses. but if human requests god for help god will help in choosing.

    fate is pre-determined by "us" thru our previous deeds. a "power that is greater than us" is infact, and in general, above this fate stuff. but definitely that power will aid in changing the result of the fate.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 1:59 PM  

  • Ada PB mayil thogai mathiri ovaru blog vechi padam kaatrane ppa..:)

    Based on some references too, what I think of based on the Guruji's response is as follows. No pretences meant.

    By slogging and struggling when one sees that all that has accomplished a small task, it hurts the ego
    - mostly due to the perception that one is really the doer, etc..

    Whereas the Sadhu engaged in austerities, with far, far greater belief in the Higher power. The Sadhu would have consciously realized that the Higher power has carried him thus far. How the Sadhu could judge the such extremeties is truly divine..

    Talking about ego self, I am reminded about the english verses in Thiruvasagam symphony

    "..Lost in vanity and pretence
    ... My five senses made no sense.."

    Itho PB kamba yeduthu vararu..naan escapeu :):)

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 10:35 PM  

  • PB,
    naanum abstracta purinjinden. ana viLakkam kekka matten.
    ketta artham azinjudum :-)

    By Blogger sb, at 6:07 PM  

  • pb, kadha enaku puriyala
    -vv

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 11:30 PM  

  • Well Said :-)

    By Blogger Kangs(கங்கா) - Kangeyan Passoubady, at 8:53 AM  

  • The answers given by the sage appears to be totally contradictory. We can find similar statements in authoritative books like Bhagawath geetha etc. As per Sri Bhagawan Ramana Maharshi, the answers are not for the questions but for the questioner. For any spiritual questions, seekrs get satisfied by different answers based upon their maturity level. A Great master knows their disciple's level and answers accordingly. This is what "differnt krishna's for each gopkia's". I am not trying to answer the "Karma-Free Will" part, because I dunno any answer. I just compiled answers by different mahathman. I am really no t qualified to talk on this subject. Sorry for my "Aarva Kolaru".

    By Blogger P B, at 9:18 AM  

  • Kangs,
    I am great fan of your blog. Please see I have blog rolled you. I am happy to see you drop by. Thanks.

    By Blogger P B, at 9:20 AM  

  • pb...

    appo saadhukku mattum vidhi ye pathukum..merchankku avan effort podanumaa..who defines these rules..any vedham/ shastram/sage/God? I am not clear..

    Appo Ph.D studentukku ennadhu
    efforta? vidhiyaa??:)-

    By Blogger Maayaa, at 8:37 AM  

  • To b hinest I dont know the right answer. These were the answers given by some of the great saints when approached b y disciples. What I think i it really doe not matter what these saints except for the person who receives the message. Guru is the one who can tell u what is right answer for you. Guru is vedam, shasthram and everything.

    By Blogger P B, at 9:51 AM  

  • There are two vectors in our life
    The Prarabdhaa = Fate=Luck =Destiny
    Purushartha=Self Effort
    To explain the concept things may be put like this
    LIFE IS A JOURNEY UPSTREAM IN A RIVER(RIVER RAFTING)
    PRARABDHA Determines the Velocity of the stream
    Purusharta the velocity of you /me driving the boat
    The net Result is PURUSHARTA ~ PRARABDHA
    If Purushartha is less than Prarabdha or equal to it we do not progress or we retrogade
    If purushartha is more we evolve/progress
    prarabdha is like a bullet that has been shot from a GUN -IRRETREIVABLE
    Purushartha - Self effort depends on our OWN WILL to chalk out our future irrespective of the Prarabdhaa

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 1:57 AM  

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